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Generac Liquid Cooled Generators Troubleshooting Questions, Answers, and Information About Liquid Cooled Guardian Generators

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Old April 8th, 2008   #1
MGAPA
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Default Will not shut down...

I have a 3.0L, 30kW, Model 005220-0 QuietSource Generator fed with natural gas equipped with an Automatic Transfer Switch, HS Type. My problem started yesterday after a 3-hour blackout from rain storms. Generator came on,supplied power- but when utility power was restored, the generator did not turn off. Green LED was blinking equal time of on/off, indicating the sensing wires were compromised. Check the two BBS-5 fuses and they were blown. Replaced them, green LED steady; then set exerciser and unit started and shut down as normal. Generator rocker left in AUTO position. A couple of hours later, the unit started up, heard a ?pop? at start up (fuse blown?); I then shut down unit with rocker switch set to OFF; heard another small pop (second fuse blown?). Again green light flashing equal on/off. Neutral problem with N1 and/or N2?

Any help with why:

Unit would not shut down after utility power was restored?

Why unit started on its own, as if to exercise, even though it had just completed that cycle?

The unit has approximately 31 hours, installed after Hurricane Wilma, approximately 2 years ago. Has been on weekly exercise routine and handled a few outages with no problems.

Changed oil & filter, added water to batteries about two weeks ago.

BBS-5 fuses hard to find; any suggestions?. Noted on your forum possibility of McMaster Carr carrying. Do you?

Also noted T1 & T2 are not used; per manual they are not used on air cooled & on some liquid cooled. Therefore, this pair of fuses is not being used. Could this be problematic?

In the event I have a power outage again & unit is in OFF position on control board, can I assume that the transfer switch moved from utility to generator,and that I can start generator manually, by moving rocker from OFF to MANUAL; when power is restored, can I assume the transfer switch went from generator to utility, & that I can switch rocker to OFF position from MANUAL on control panel?

Any help?
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Old April 9th, 2008   #2
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I have hundreds of bbs-5's in stock. If you need them, we can mail them to you. Call our sales department at 1-888-294-5537.

To your problem. We have to figure out why these fuses are being destroyed.

The first step is to isolate the wires between the transfer switch and generator. Take N1 and N2 off the transfer switch terminals, as well as off the terminals in the generator. The best way to do this is with a megger which puts out very high voltage to test the insulation, this will also show us a short. If no megger is available, use a continuity tester. Test from n1 to ground, n1 to n2, and n2 to ground. It is helpful to have a graphing meter if you're doing this by yourself, (fluke 289) or if you have another person, monitor the tester while you have someone wiggle any sealtite or flex that the wires are traveling through. This should show a short if there is one.

Post up your results.
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Old April 9th, 2008   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MGAPA View Post

Any help with why:

Unit would not shut down after utility power was restored?

Because the generator was not receiving 240V from the transfer switch to signal a generator shutdown.

Why unit started on its own, as if to exercise, even though it had just completed that cycle?

n1 or n2 fuse blown.
We may also find that the PCB or transformer was damaged. The 240V goes to a transformer that knocks it down to DC and the DC voltage then goes to the PCB. The PCB is actually monitoring DC voltage to see if there is power available.
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Old April 10th, 2008   #4
MGAPA
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Tested from n1 to ground, n1 to n2, and n2 to ground. All showed ok. Decided to physically pull n1 & n2 wires out for visual exam; noted two areas of concern-one area had grey insulation around 2 wires showing heat deformity; second area had n1 & n2 burnt open with wires potentiallly touching. Will replace n1 & n2 and post results. Note that n1 & n2 share large 3" pipe with 2 conductors.Considering running n1 & n2 in own pipe. Any feedback on this plan?
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Old May 12th, 2008   #5
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Replaced n1 & n2; replaced blown fuses...exercise mode functioned properly & then I waited for the inevitable black-out. Came yesterday; generator functioned as required...all very smoothly. Thank you for your help...
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Old September 21st, 2008   #6
markbill
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My 3 year old 5213 25kw which I self-installed recently started on it's on without a utility power disruption. I work 320 miles away below New Orleans but make my home here, so I'm away during the week and home only on weekends. My wife reported to me a couple times by phone that the generator had started on it's on in the middle of the night without without having lost utility power. It always worked while I was home on the weekends and I could not find any reason for this behavior when I was troubleshooting it. This time I was home and it happened during the daytime.

Long story short.....N1A wire at the N1 lug of the transfer switch below the MCB had become very hot and burned through the insulation of both N1A and N2A shorting them out and burning open. These wires are attached with crimp connectors BEHIND the buss bar from the MCB. These lugs were apparently never torqued properly at the time of manufacture and over time caused the wires to overheat and burn open after shorting out to one another. Replaced the wires, moved them to the FRONT of the buss bar so they're visible, ensured the wires do NOT touch one another while running back to the fuses, and it now works perfectly.

I self-installed my unit 3 years ago after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I knew I was taking a chance installing it my self with possibility of voiding any warranties although I followed all instructions and recommendations in the manuals, and I have electrical knowledge and background though not licensed.
I had two problems that would have been warranty issues if I had had it installed by a dealer.
First, the unit would not crank after performing all pre-checks. The cause was a crimp connector crimped on the insulation of wire 56 instead of the wire conductor at the starter contactor coil which did not allow the contactor to energize and transfer 12v to the starter. Re-crimped and it worked fine.
Second, the circuit breaker of the separate 120v power for the battery charger kept tripping. Discovered that the Hot and Neutral wires at the terminal strip on the battery charger side were reversed at the time of manufacture so that when I hooked up the wires according to the labeling at the term strip I was actually connecting Hot to Neutral and vice versa. Corrected Generac's wiring error and unit has worked flawlessly for better than 3 years until the recent transfer switch problems.

I chalked up the quality control problems to a rush to manufacture units after Hurricanes Katrina and Rita. I ordered my unit before Katrina and didn't receive it until a few months AFTER Rita.

This post is not meant to bash Generac in any way. I am VERY pleased with my unit and proud of my self-installation and that I've been able to correct all problems I've had with my unit myself with the supplied documentation. I recommend Generac units to friends, acquaintences, and neighbors.

I'm very happy I found this great forum and I've learned a LOT and gained a better understanding of things since reading these threads. For example, I NEVER thought about the consequences of self-installation as far as home ownwer's insurance is concerned. I DID consider the consequences of the warranty possibly not being honored but I took that chance and it has paid off. However, in discussions with neighbors and acquaintences I always mention these issues after learning about them here.

Mark B. from beautiful Toledo Bend Reservoir in Lousiana.
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