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Charles Williams
July 17th, 2009, 03:58 PM
My 20kw generac generator is running rough at my weekly exercise time. when it runs if i pull off the air breather and move the choke butterfly it smooths out and runs fine. Also i can run in regular run mode(manual) and it always runs fine. I think that the choke solenoid is not working correctly? Any one know if there is an issue with generac warranty? it seems that it is choking and not releasing the choke?

Thanks,
Craig

jax
July 17th, 2009, 05:47 PM
I had the same problem with my 20kw while running the excercise function. What I did was let it run in the fast mode for the excercise. This solved my problem. There are other threads on here about this issue, but none really solved my problem. Good luck!

Charles Williams
July 17th, 2009, 06:18 PM
Yea, I am trying to find out how to change that function? Or maybe see if the generator company has a fix. I know that it is a issue that they need to fix.
Thanks

d11gnccer
July 17th, 2009, 10:21 PM
We have a couple installs from earlier this year that started doing this. After being aware of the problem I havn't had a chance to catch it in the act. I do know it was running 28-30 hertz and had a heavy gas smell in exhaust fumes. Seems the other people on here have just set the excercise mode to full speed. But, it would be nice to see if someone was able to correct the problem instead of bypass it.

Charles Williams
July 18th, 2009, 06:32 AM
Yes, that sounds like the same problem that I have. Generac needs to address this problem. I also think that when a repair is found that they need to have a recall on the fix.
Thanks

ohmslaw
July 19th, 2009, 07:25 AM
I would check the valve adjustment. They may be set to tight.

Tim

d11gnccer
July 19th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Seems that if it were a valve problem the problem would be constant. Not fine one excercise and then a problem the next, then fine again when we arrive.

bronco
July 20th, 2009, 09:52 AM
bend the choke plate up about 3 mm and see what happens.

ereutimann
July 21st, 2009, 03:56 PM
My 20 kw generator did the same thing. By searching the manual, I noticed on the figures where it shows on you how to change over from natural gas to propane, the chocke plate is addjustable with a screw. I bent the tap slightly but did not want to do any damage so I took two small strips of duck tape and folded it over the tab. It ran fine after that. I observed earlier exercise cicles and I never liked the low RPM's. The generator seem to just sputter along and I was worried that maybe this could cause low oil pressure.
When it died out on subseqent obsevations after 4 to 5 minutes, I figured this has to be fixed.
One a other subject I like to know if changing the oil to syntetic 10-30 (Chicago) will be fine.
I had the battery blanket installed. In the spring I got a battery fault message. When I checked the battery it was very hot. The internal thermostat did not shut-off and coocked the battery. I would suggest an additional thermostat beside the one in the blanket just to be safe. Also the space to put a blanket around the battery is just to small. The compartment should be changed.

SkipD
July 21st, 2009, 04:02 PM
One a other subject I like to know if changing the oil to syntetic 10-30 (Chicago) will be fine.If it gets cold enough to need a battery blanket, 10W-30 is a bit too viscous in my opinion. For up here in the cold north, 5W-30 is recommended regardless of whether the oil is conventional or synthetic.

ereutimann
July 21st, 2009, 04:13 PM
I use all syntetic in my cars. One of the cars I drive on the Track and use 5-50 when the weather is cool and 20-50 when it is hot. I was considering 5-40 also.
I also noticed that the oil filter seem to be the same as on my Kawasaky Versys.

rogpike
August 2nd, 2009, 07:44 PM
I just set mine to exercise at the full 3600 RPMs. Dunno why it is running rough at exercise now all the sudden. The tech attempted to bend choke plate and it didn't work. My neighbor set his to do the same. Hopefully they will come up with a fix.

d11gnccer
August 4th, 2009, 08:07 PM
I was told by Generac tech support to bend choke plate 1/8th of an inch. First time I made the mistake of bending the plate too much and it lifted it off of both ports. Bent it back down and generator ran at 40HZ which equates to 2400 RPM.

The homeowner used to build race engines and said Holly carbs used a similiar design that would sometimes run rough at idle. He would start with a small drill bit and increase the hole size untill it ran as desired. He had a much more experience ear than I and said it was still stumbling slightly and wants a new choke plate because I had lifted it off of both ports. At 55 cents each we have 3 on order.

dcopps
August 25th, 2009, 06:00 PM
I finished my install of my 20kw this weekend. It has the same problem of running rough dring exercise mode. It also has a strong smell of NG. I went ahead an set the exercise mode to full speed and all is fine. Checked NG pressure and it was 7"WC (Someone said high NG pressure would cause this) I did not bend the choke plate. I just didn't want to bend something on a brand new unit.

Generac really needs to get this fixed.

d11gnccer
August 27th, 2009, 03:36 PM
We just replaced the control board on a unit that was only excercising a few minutes and also running rough low speed from time to time. The "revision B" controller had low speed turned off from default. I don't know what else changed from revision A to B but it would be interesting to know.

Bei46321
September 10th, 2009, 07:11 PM
The solution is to replace the air box (mixer). Apparently there is a port in the unit that has been drilled to the wrong diameter on some of them. Mine use to run so rough that I thought it would tear its self apart, but now it runs as smooth as can be in the quiet test mode and there is no smell of unburned natural gas.

SkipD
September 10th, 2009, 10:06 PM
The solution is to replace the air box (mixer). Apparently there is a port in the unit that has been drilled to the wrong diameter on some of them. Mine use to run so rough that I thought it would tear its self apart, but now it runs as smooth as can be in the quiet test mode and there is no smell of unburned natural gas.Do you know what port is drilled wrong and what both the wrong and right sizes are for it? A photo showing the port along with the numbers would probably be extremely valuable to folks here.

Bei46321
September 11th, 2009, 11:09 AM
Don't know. Generac sent a whole new air box. It was replaced under warranty. There were no instructions on how to repair the original mixer.

Kelly Myers
September 14th, 2009, 07:21 AM
Don't know. Generac sent a whole new air box. It was replaced under warranty. There were no instructions on how to repair the original mixer.

This is the first I've heard about this. I'll contact generac today and post what I find.

Bei46321
October 14th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Hi Kelly,
It's been 4 weeks now. Hasn't Generac gotten back to you yet?

Bei46321
October 30th, 2009, 11:10 AM
Hi All,
I'm surprised that Kelly has not heard back from Generac yet. For those of you who can't wait to get their Quiet-Test mode working properly you can contact my installer Steve Gibson at:
Dealer: Generator Technologies
Address: 1249 Burville Rd
Crete, IL 60417
Phone: 708-756-4943
Fax: 708-672-6273
He's willing to travel 50 miles from his location which covers the greater Chicago land area.
Once he gets the new air box installed you'll be a happy camper.

vet327
November 2nd, 2009, 06:47 PM
any new news on the rough running in exersice mode?

Scott Wonders
November 25th, 2009, 08:24 PM
I've had the same problem and gave up waiting on Kelly. I read what others were saying then ran a few tests myself.
See the following post:
http://zillerelectric.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868&highlight=rough+running

steve1234
December 16th, 2009, 04:19 PM
same problem, how do I set it to run @ high rpms in excercise mode?

d11gnccer
December 16th, 2009, 05:48 PM
Kill power to the control. On power up you will go through a few prompts. One of those is yes or no for quiet test. Just select "no".

SkipD
December 17th, 2009, 06:58 AM
same problem, how do I set it to run @ high rpms in excercise mode?
Welcome to the forums.

It would be a very good idea to let the group know precisely which generator you have. The complete model number as found on the internal label would be a good start.

In addition, what RPM is it running at during exercise mode now?

Is this a new installation or has it been running OK in the past?

steve1234
December 17th, 2009, 09:35 PM
20kw model # 5744 , new install I did the wiring( master electrian ) , had a master plumber do the natural gas,rpm -1800

GetTheNet
January 16th, 2010, 11:41 AM
I installed a Model 5744 in May. I noticed this same thing during the Weekly Excerise Mode. The generator runs rough, spits, coughs and extreme gas smell. The unit then coughs out and quits running during the Excerise Mode.
With that being said and reading this whole thread and seeing Kelly's post about they would look into this and let us know. Since that has been a long time ago and Kelly is on this site daily only leads me to believe one thing. Guardian and Ziller are aware of this problem but yet they don't wish to help us resolve it.

I just signed up for this forum because I didn't know it was here until I noticed this problem with mine. This is what I did. I had the company that came out and installed the unit check it over. Also called the Master Plumber to come out and check his work as well to make sure everything was perfect. Everything was installed correctly, everything still looked great. So we set the Excerise Mode to come on in 3 mins while we were standing there. It came on.... started up good.. after 15 seconds it started bucking, coughing and the master plumber was looking seeing if there was a leak somewhere.... nothing... everything was perfect but the generator still was bucking, coughing then shut off after 1 min 45 seconds into the cycle. At this point the electric company that I had install it knew a guy that is a specialist with NG motors and he called him. Just by chance he was at Lowe's which is about 1/2 mile away. He came over and we repeated this process again. As soon as the Excerise mode came on it started bucking and coughing again. At this point the guy started yelling SHUT IT OFF SHUT IT OFF SHUT IT OFF ... So we did... he stepped back and said "I want no part of this" He said "If it's under warranty then your good to go. Because this motor is doing internal damage to itself every time it goes into that coughing, bucking mode. He advised me to stop running it in the excerise mode until I found out what was causing this. He said to make sure whoever fixed this issue clearly writes out what the motor is doing because it's throwing the inside of the motor all to heck and over time could be in months this motor will fail because of it.

I called Guardian and the lady said "this is the first time I have heard of this" but gave me a few numbers to call. The 1st two places installed the units but said "We don't do warranty work". I about died laughing.. Anyway, here I am now writing down all the dealerships trying to find one that will come and fix the unit. I have high reguards for Ziller Electric and for the life of me I can't figure out why Kelly has dropped this thread. Other then the simple fact I assume is because they were told to stay away from it because they fully know it's a huge problem because it could be the reason some of the engines have failed. So if yours has been doing this and your engine has failed I would say this could be the reason. The engine guy told me these were good engines and with the limited amount of use they get this engine should out live me. I am only 45.. :) that was good to hear, but then he said with the amount of bucking, coughing this engine could just live 6 months.... Something to look into since it seems there is alot of us with this issue and Kelly has blown us off. now you think hmmm maybe she forgot could be... but you will see that another moderator has been posting here as well. Meaning he has read the thread and I am sure he contacted Kelly and said "Hey, you might want to reply to the 20kw rough running at excerise mode. Don't you think?? I will keep you up today on my progress on this issue as well.
Michael

Kelly Myers
January 18th, 2010, 07:06 AM
I installed a Model 5744 in May. I noticed this same thing during the Weekly Excerise Mode. The generator runs rough, spits, coughs and extreme gas smell. The unit then coughs out and quits running during the Excerise Mode.
With that being said and reading this whole thread and seeing Kelly's post about they would look into this and let us know. Since that has been a long time ago and Kelly is on this site daily only leads me to believe one thing. Guardian and Ziller are aware of this problem but yet they don't wish to help us resolve it.

I just signed up for this forum because I didn't know it was here until I noticed this problem with mine. This is what I did. I had the company that came out and installed the unit check it over. Also called the Master Plumber to come out and check his work as well to make sure everything was perfect. Everything was installed correctly, everything still looked great. So we set the Excerise Mode to come on in 3 mins while we were standing there. It came on.... started up good.. after 15 seconds it started bucking, coughing and the master plumber was looking seeing if there was a leak somewhere.... nothing... everything was perfect but the generator still was bucking, coughing then shut off after 1 min 45 seconds into the cycle. At this point the electric company that I had install it knew a guy that is a specialist with NG motors and he called him. Just by chance he was at Lowe's which is about 1/2 mile away. He came over and we repeated this process again. As soon as the Excerise mode came on it started bucking and coughing again. At this point the guy started yelling SHUT IT OFF SHUT IT OFF SHUT IT OFF ... So we did... he stepped back and said "I want no part of this" He said "If it's under warranty then your good to go. Because this motor is doing internal damage to itself every time it goes into that coughing, bucking mode. He advised me to stop running it in the excerise mode until I found out what was causing this. He said to make sure whoever fixed this issue clearly writes out what the motor is doing because it's throwing the inside of the motor all to heck and over time could be in months this motor will fail because of it.

I called Guardian and the lady said "this is the first time I have heard of this" but gave me a few numbers to call. The 1st two places installed the units but said "We don't do warranty work". I about died laughing.. Anyway, here I am now writing down all the dealerships trying to find one that will come and fix the unit. I have high reguards for Ziller Electric and for the life of me I can't figure out why Kelly has dropped this thread. Other then the simple fact I assume is because they were told to stay away from it because they fully know it's a huge problem because it could be the reason some of the engines have failed. So if yours has been doing this and your engine has failed I would say this could be the reason. The engine guy told me these were good engines and with the limited amount of use they get this engine should out live me. I am only 45.. :) that was good to hear, but then he said with the amount of bucking, coughing this engine could just live 6 months.... Something to look into since it seems there is alot of us with this issue and Kelly has blown us off. now you think hmmm maybe he forgot could be... but you will see that another moderator has been posting here as well. Meaning he has read the thread and I am sure he contacted Kelly and said "Hey, you might want to reply to the 20kw rough running at excerise mode. Don't you think?? I will keep you up today on my progress on this issue as well.
Michael

Hi Michael. We have a lot of the new model generators out there, and we have yet to replace an engine. The only engines we ever replace are the older 992's that have had a severe lack of maintenance, or the occasional internal governor failure.

Also, I'm not blowing anybody off. I would rather post no information, then bad information, therefor I do not have any info for you. My latest post on the subject can be found here: http://zillerelectric.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5935&postcount=13

Where you will see that as of late, we've been contacting Generac and they have been approving us to replace complete air boxes which have fixed the problems we were experiencing. However, on others we've found that adjusting the choke immediately corrected the rough idle, or hard start. So we're handling it on a case by case basis. While numerous people here have had this issue, please realize that most customers of a particular product do not come to the internet to praise it, but they come to the net to find a fix. The total amount of people this is effecting is lower then it appears, and maybe 1/20 of your generators in the field have had this issue. Like I've said before, I will post any information Generac gives us. I do not work for Generac, so I of course cannot represent them.

If you wish to save time, you can email me at kelly@zillerelectric.com and I will put you in touch with a dealer who will take care of your problem, as opposed to you emailing numerous dealers trying to find out who knows how to work on them.

GetTheNet
January 18th, 2010, 09:56 AM
Kelly,
Thank you for the reply. Sometimes no post also results in a post like mine. A quick note stating a update would have worked. As stated I have only good things to say about Ziller. The guy that came with the NG engine knowledge is one of the best in the nation from what I found out from researching. I have a call into another guy in hopes I can get him to come out. If not I will let you know. Once again thank you for the reply. I am sure it's helped others on this thread as well.
Michael

Charles Williams
February 5th, 2010, 08:21 PM
Posted original post. I don't see the air box thing? my 5744 did the rough running with the breather top OFF? I think it is a choke solenoid thing. Will close butterfly but has a hard time opening it. Used a very small amount of WD 40 on choke pivot point and exercised the choke by hand some and my unit has worked fine ever since. Hope this will help someone.
Thanks to others that helped me.

exrace
February 28th, 2010, 10:26 AM
I am going to try this on my setup. I too am having this issue. Being it is warm here today I noticed the rough exercise mode on today's exercise mode.

I will report back in a bit.

exrace
February 28th, 2010, 11:16 AM
I just checked this and the choke plate operated freely but gave it a quick shot of wd40 anyway. No change.

What I noticed during some testing is when it starts up in exercise mode in "quiet mode" my unit starts right up to 3600 rpm for a few secs, the choke opens full but when it throttles back the choke closes and rough running starts.
I did this after the unit had just run a test and the engine was nice and warm. During one test when it throttled back and I watched the choke close I open the choke manually...it evened out a bit but it still ran rich. My issue is starting to look like the airbox issue Kelly posted about.
http://zillerelectric.com/forums/showthread.php?t=953&page=2

For now I am going to exercise the unit without quiet mode. I just did a test and it worked fine that way.